Fat flyers to fork out on Air France KLM
Filed under: Travel
Move over Ryanair, there's an airline with its sights set on taking the title for the most cunning ways to bump up the price of a ticket.Air France KLM has hit on the cunning rouse of charging obese people extra, by making them buy a second seat on the plane.
From April 1, they will generously give them a 25% discount, but will demand the overweight buy an extra seat. They say anyone refusing to buy two seats will be turned away at the plane door.
This isn't the first time the airline has had a bash at this. In 2007 they charged a passenger as he got on the plane. In that instance they were taken to court and the judge ruled they couldn't do it, because the rule wasn't in the small print.
Now they are changing the small print, and fatties will have to pay up.
Is this fair?
The airline is claiming it is for safety reasons, but this doesn't wash. It can't be about the extra weight, or suitcases would all be charged by weight. And it can't be about causing an obstruction on the plane in the event of an emergency or the very old or the very young wouldn't be allowed to fly.
Oddly enough, this isn't just about making more money, because the second seat will be sold at a discount and will be refunded if the plane isn't full.
This is ostensibly about the comfort of the person next to them. If you are overweight enough that there just isn't room for the person next to you to sit comfortably then maybe it is fair.
But by the same token, the very tall should also be made to pay, as should the very rude who refuse to allow your arms any room on the arm rest, or noisy eaters, snorers, talkers, or those who have eaten garlic. Let's face it, at least half the plane will be packed with the kind of people you wouldn't be terribly comfortable sitting next to.
So no, it isn't fair. If you are a skinny passenger, with a loathing for the overweight, this kind of unfairness may suit you, but if you are one of the 50% of people in the UK who are overweight, or one of the one in five who are obese, you may wish to take your custom somewhere that doesn't believe it's OK to discriminate against the fat.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
1-21-2010 @ 7:03PM
Wes said...
Sorry but if you take up more than one seat and another person
cant sit beside you then you should pay extra
unless the plane is not full.
by the way i am 15 stone so we should all lose weight for health reasons and save money
wes/
Reply
1-21-2010 @ 9:30AM
Jon said...
This is unfair if they are charging for seriously obese passengers, shouldn't they be providing seats that are designed to allow obese people to sit comfortably as they are being charged for it. I am 6ft 8ins, when I fly it is cramped, there are no seats on the plane suitable for me. If airlines wish to charge more for people of a larger frame then they should provide seating that is suitable. They will provide for wheelchair users, children in pushchairs, pregnant mothers if they are allowed to fly, and passengers with legs/arms in plaster. The funny thing is aircraft are getting larger and so is the world population, as in the size of people, so why are we still expected to squeeze into small seats and toilets on aircraft.
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1-22-2010 @ 3:45AM
Wes said...
Hi Jon i agree it is unfair; but in the real world profit rules the day.
Unless this is brought in by law; it wont happen.
I describe these planes as a cigar tube with wings.
The problem is ;if the price is right; we will keep using them.
In this day and age ;when they are talking about building
micro houses;what chance have we got of seeing
larger aeroplanes.
I agree it is a big problem ;one day this problem may be addressed.
wes/
1-21-2010 @ 12:22PM
Paul said...
About time too.
The very tall don't have any choice, the obese are obese because of the choices they have made over the last 10, 20 , 30 years of their lives.
They are obese out of choice.
Why should anybody have to sit next to them in already cramped conditions, dead right to make them pay for the seat next to them. If they can't afford it then maybe they should spend less on food to save the extra - oh but if they spent less on food they wouldn't have to pay the extra would they??
It's time to stop pandering to all these self inflicted invalids.
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1-21-2010 @ 12:52PM
mick said...
totally agree paul, the majority of obesety is self inflicted not all of it tho, if it wasn,t for so many fatties we normal people would have cheaper fares perhaps or a higher baggage allowance
1-21-2010 @ 10:27AM
Michael Schutte said...
The sad reality of flying (in the back at least) today is that the seats are too small. They are too close together for tall or large people.
I travel a lot. I am a big guy, 6'3" and 220 lbs. I categorically do not fit comfortably in a standard economy seat. I don't hang over the edges, just need to be folded in.
I have had the misfortune to be seated next to a very, very large woman on a long haul flight. Not only was she extremely large, but also seemed to have issues with bathing. In the end the cabin crew took pity on me and the other person in the row and moved her up to business. Lucky her.
Should people like this be forced to pay for two seats if the flight is full? Too bloody right. Why should I have to suffer 9 hours of extreme discomfort because my neighbor is enormous? (and stinks)
If our bags are overweight they charge us, over 35kg they will not even load them on the aircraft.
This is about personal responsibility people! If you weigh 500 pounds, it shouldn't surprise you that your condition may have a negative effect on the in-flight experience of your row mates. Grow up and accept the consequences of your choices. It is not acceptible to make your problems my problems. I have paid for my seat and am 100% entitled to occupy 100% of it. If you need 150% of a seat, then pay for it, fly business, or get down the bloody gym and sort it out.
Your rights are NOT more important than mine. Your personal problems are NOT an excuse to ruin my flight.
BTW, if you have world class BO, chronic flatulence, or halitosis from hell - a little no-mans-land would be appreciated as well.
I think the fact that AF/KLM propose to refund the cost of the extra seat if the flight has room is outstanding. They are choosing not to penalise the "large" if their condition is not a problem for anyone else. If you had the same consideration for others this would be a great start.
Bravo AF/KLM.
To all of you who want to blame others for not accepting to have their day ruined because of your obesity - try assuming some personal responsibility for it.
If the dinner tray won't unfold against your belly - try skipping dinner instead of whinging about it. You don't need it, and I want my seat back.
Actually I want an exit row, aisle, next to someone who IS in the 95th percentile the seats are designed for.
Bon voyage, Michael
Reply
1-22-2010 @ 1:22PM
Su said...
I totally agree ..Michael that must have an awful situation to be in sitting next to a very large woman who had personal hygeuine problems. The system is not fair I agree, why should a slim man or woman who wishes to take extra clothing pay more, then an overweight man or woman who maybe weighs much more pay less.
Maybe the airline companies could work out a ratio system such as healthy guidlines to height and weight, the only thing is if on holiday and especially an allinclusive WOW just think of the cost coming back :) and Michael you sound good to me 6ft 3inches 220iBs you can sit next to me anytime :) I personally prefer the larger guy , Oh and I am petite and 7ibs overweight .... Ummmmmmm how much will cost me ?
1-21-2010 @ 11:06AM
paul said...
Nice one Michael.
Fat people are the scurge of society and if your butt needs 2 seats then you should pay for 2. Most fat people are fat because they eat too much and only a small proportion are fat because they have "hormone problems" (which is about as likely as Labour being in power in 6 months or Gordon finding his other eye).
Personally fatties should refrain from flying anyway as a plane crash could mean the need for several fire fighting forces required to put them out should they catch fire. A tip - if the plane does go down, try riding a fattie as this is likely to be the softest landing available.
Reply
1-22-2010 @ 9:06PM
Helena said...
Riding a fattie? Hmm nice
1-21-2010 @ 1:58PM
John said...
Well I'm one of the fatties but I only travel with my family. I sit next to my family who are all normal weight. They don't mind so why should I be charged nearly double.
The other 4 in my immediate family are well below the average and they sure don't get a discount for being 'underweight' so I'll be damned if I'll pay them any more for being overweight.
Bye bye KLM
Reply
1-21-2010 @ 12:44PM
graham said...
if they didn't eat so much they could afford to buy business class!!
Reply
1-21-2010 @ 12:41PM
Elbows in the face. said...
About time too. And there should be no discount, they make passengers life a misery - smell, eating habits, noisy, they ask for your bun before you have finished eating!! uncomfortable, and they almost always have some other ailment/s
Reply
1-21-2010 @ 12:53PM
Old Stager said...
I think that ALL airlines should weight the passenger and their luggage. The system is not fair at present. we have to pay excess baggage fees no matter how much we weigh. Surely the toal weightof everything & everybody in the aircraft should be taken into account.
Reply
1-22-2010 @ 9:07PM
Helena said...
Absolutely. And when they walk through the censor it would also calculate their body mass and calculate what size seat they would need: large and extra large.
These would come at extra charge and be in a separate section of the plane and if they're stranded from their family...too bad.
Maybe the humiliation might force them to have a look at their diet.
For tall people it is a shame but maybe if there was something in the seat that lowered it accordingy to the height of the passenger. They shouldn't have to pay any extra for this though.
1-21-2010 @ 4:36PM
Phil said...
Old Stager is probably right. Weight the person and their bags, after all, it costs the airline money to lift that weight off the ground in the first place. It costs a lot less to fly a load of passengers to a holiday resort, and back, when all they have with them is a small bag with a swimsuit, than it costs to fly a load of people to the same place in winter when they have all their warm-weather gear in suitcases. It might not be too long before some bright spark in the airline business starts treating passengers and their bags like freight rather than as paying customers who must be cuddled, as they do now. If that happened, an unfortunately obese person with little luggage would probably pay about the same as a skinny with loads of stuff. It might take time though - can anyone see British Airways, or American, using the FedEx model?
1-21-2010 @ 5:15PM
jane said...
I agree.... I am normal weight, my sister is tiny, we travel a lot together and struggle to meet the luggage allowance, and there are these large people with the same luggage taking up more weight room in the plane by a large margin.
To charge extra for obese people might be the best thing for keeping the population slimmer...... diet and pay less slogan !!
1-21-2010 @ 12:54PM
seconds please. said...
"The airline is claiming it is for safety reasons, but this (they) doesn't (don't) wash"
Well done aol, u got something right for a change.
Reply
1-21-2010 @ 2:49PM
diane said...
Agree totally. I've had long & short-haul flights completely ruined by being unlucky enough to be seated next to people who, by "virtue" of their weight, overhang into my "space", and appear to think it is ok to blob me into a corner, allowing me no use of arm rest & difficulty clambering over them if I have the audacity to need the loo...or have a wander, which is apparently what we are Supposed to do to avoid a DVT.
Tall people, within their BMI range - no problem. They don't appear to have a syndrome whereby they assume a right to also sit with their legs wide apart.
My "ideas" (personal opinion only, but hopefully fair for all?) is that people such as my average/skinny-sized self should not be allowed to hog the extra leg room seats, even for a premium. These should be reserved for people NEEDING extra leg room, their travel partners could have the option of sitting with them, if they wish..? Or normal seats if they don't mind, and all sit together?
As for anyone outside the normal BMI range...either special "outside the BMI range seats", at extra cost? I did think that, for every kilo outside the norm, such passengers could make it up by being penalised via their luggage allowance? ie for each kilo above, you can sit in a normal seat if you take proportionately less luggage? This doesn't solve the problem of the discomfort of the passenger next to you but, there must come a point where they decide "I want to take SOME luggage, so I had better pay extra for my seat, rather than fly empty-handed!?!" As a lifelong skinny person (can't help it, I eat loads, but only Just get into the "normal" range, however hard I try...) it is annoying, to say the least, to have people weighing twice/three times as much as me (same height) weighing down the plane at the same time as being allowed as much luggage as me! Normally I travel light (we do NOT need to take our entire home with us!!) but a recent Ryanair ski flight (15kg allowance, strictly adhered to!) became farcical when I had to pay extra in order to bring BOTH of my ski boots home. One would have been fine, but my boots have been with me for a good few years now, and it was sentimental value, if nothing else...yet a massively obese grandmother in front of me, who had only been shipped over to babysit while adults went skiing, was welcomed onto the flight, 15 kgs bag, with no hassle (obviously she would never have found ski boots to fit her, so the problem of extra luggage never arose). No idea where she sat..I feel sorry for the person who had to sit next to her, but it wasn't SUCH a long flight, so not to worry?????!!!!
I am NOT fattist, honest! There are far worse things which people of the World have to deal with. However, when my elderly mother (extremely fit, active, happily still works 4 days a week in order to buy her flight to see her son each year) returns from visiting my brother in Australia, is tearful, with worrying leg pain, due to being cramped in one position for 24 hours by having to sit next to an obese person and being unable to move, sleep, or go to the toilet, something HAS to change, surely?
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1-21-2010 @ 2:49PM
Paul said...
I agree with michael and all the others who dislike being crushed by obese passengers. I spent a 6hr flight a couple of years ago surrounded by a large family, this was not a pleasant experience. Normal economy class doesn't give much in the way of space even if like me you are 5ft 10ins and 12.5 stone but if obese people are seated alongside then it becomes intollerable. If my cases exceed the 15kg limit then I'm charged an excessive fee, even though they take up no more space.
An obese passenger always seems to overflow into adjoining seats, we are told that flights use fuel dependant on the all up weight of the aircraft. Global warming (real or otherwise) is cited as a result of aircraft use. If the cost of a ticket were to relate to this figure then fatties would have to pay more.
I do not think that we should be possitively discriminating in favour of self-inflicted obesity. When a Risk Assessment for a crash scenario is carried out ,the extra difficulties associated with extricating larger than average persons could make the difference between normal weight passengers living and dying in addition to themselves.
The scarey thing is that the obese are becoming more numerous and this means that the situation will only get worse.
Unless the airlines return to adequately dimensioned seating then the actions adopted by AF/KLM should be adopted by all airlines.
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1-21-2010 @ 3:14PM
Rosalind said...
I agree, I had a 14 hour flight completely overwhelmed sitting next to someone who overflowed the seat. Such flights are horrible enough without this additional problem. If you need one and a half seats, you should have to pay for it.
I have a friend who would reduce benefits by £1 for every 1 lb a person claiming them was obese (defined as 2 stone over BMI of 25). His argument is that such a person must be overeating and should therefore receive less taxpayer's money. Don't think he'll ever be PM!
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